Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 21

Thread: Wheel Help for DS Class

  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    16

    Wheel Help for DS Class

    Hi Everyone,

    I have a bit of a problem with wheels and offset rules for DS class. My stock wheels have a 55 offset and the brand new set of Enkei's I got by mistake is 45... I know the rules state I'm allowed only 6.35mm difference from set to set and I have 2 questions:

    1. What class would this offset difference put me in if I decided to keep them?
    2. Has anyone heard of someone machining their wheels to increase the offset?

    I'd really like to avoid sending these back since it will cost around 200$

    Thanks in advance
    2015 Subaru WRX, #343

  2. #2
    My vtec goes BwaaaaAAAH! SCNAX HY.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    1,226
    1. You'd be bumped up to STU since your signature says 2015 WRX.
    2. Machining 10mm would not be safe or worth the money, in my opinion.

    I would keep those wheels as daily drivers or something and buy the appropriate wheels for DS if you don't want to swallow the $200 loss.

    In the long run, you will save money on what it will take to prep to STU level vs DS. That's my 2 cents.

    The wheels bought brand new then, I assume?
    Last edited by HY.; 10-29-2014 at 02:06 PM.
    -Hank #13

    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
    ― Edmund Burke

    "Hank, YEEEE HAW!!! you're a tard head :P" - Diane Bollenbecker

    "Only a Sith deals in absolutes." -Obi Wan Kenobi aka Old Ben Kenobi aka Our Only Hope

  3. #3
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    16
    I have a 2015 WRX. The difference would be 3.65mm so that's what I'd get machined off (seems so insignificant for the trouble). These were bought brand new and shipped to me, I was planning on using them as my second set and keeping the stock wheel/tire setup for daily driving.
    2015 Subaru WRX, #343

  4. #4
    My vtec goes BwaaaaAAAH! SCNAX HY.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    1,226
    Quote Originally Posted by Subie343 View Post
    I have a 2015 WRX. The difference would be 3.65mm so that's what I'd get machined off (seems so insignificant for the trouble). These were bought brand new and shipped to me, I was planning on using them as my second set and keeping the stock wheel/tire setup for daily driving.
    Yes, sorry I wasn't paying attention. 3mm isn't nearly as significant.

    The general canned answers is "rules is rules!" But what people often do is ask their competitors if anyone minds that they are illegal in way or another. Most will not begrudge you 3mm, but if even one does, they have EVERY right to protest you and DQ your runs for the day. Knowing the people I know in DS and that you're a novice, I'm guessing most won't care and will be glad to have more competitors.

    The reality I've found is that people only really start caring when you start winning. I'd be nervous to machine the wheels at all, and it'll cost you $$, but I suppose it also depends on what the wheel itself looks like and how much metal can be spared and not affect the strength.
    -Hank #13

    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
    ― Edmund Burke

    "Hank, YEEEE HAW!!! you're a tard head :P" - Diane Bollenbecker

    "Only a Sith deals in absolutes." -Obi Wan Kenobi aka Old Ben Kenobi aka Our Only Hope

  5. #5
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    16
    Quote Originally Posted by HY. View Post
    The reality I've found is that people only really start caring when you start winning.
    Thats exactly what I suspect would happen. I suppose its better to just send them back depending on what class it puts me in. Thanks for your input!
    2015 Subaru WRX, #343

  6. #6
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    16
    Warren just got back to me and he said I would be put into the appropriate "Street Touring" class. If I was in DS what would I be in with the wheels...?
    2015 Subaru WRX, #343

  7. #7
    The Iconoclast
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    2,979
    STU.

    No opponent in a class can give someone 'permission' to run illegal wheels. They would only be speaking for themselves, and they have no right to speak for everyone, forever. Anybody at the event can protest any car, even those not running your class, and even those who are not running that particular day.
    Rule 8.1
    "The right to protest may rest with any entrant, driver or official taking part in the competition in question, Each may protest any decision, act, or omission of the organizers, an official, entrant, driver, or other person connected with the competition, which the protestor believes is in violation of the Solo Rules, the Supplementary Regulations, or any conditions attached to the sanctioning of the event by SCCA. A protest against a car is also a protest against its driver and entrant."

    No competitor can speak for all future competitors. And no illegal car should ever finish ahead of a legal car, even if it's for 10th place.

    Gentlemen's agreements happen, but they rarely hold up for long. Someone soon arrives and says 'I did not agree with that', and they are right.


    /
    'Go slow to go fast' they say'. Heh. Trust me...... when it comes down to the fast ones? They go fast to go fast.
    .

  8. #8
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    16
    STU here i come, thanks for the comments everyone!
    2015 Subaru WRX, #343

  9. #9
    My vtec goes BwaaaaAAAH! SCNAX HY.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    1,226
    Quote Originally Posted by Subie343 View Post
    STU here i come, thanks for the comments everyone!
    Warren is absolutely right. People can do any of those things and you'd be in no position to argue.

    My assumption is you're concerned about classing and legality because you want to compete, and more importantly, be competitive.

    If that's the case and you're balking over $200, jumping into STU will not really solve your problems. You will go from the $200 loss and an exhaust, shocks, and sway bar (allowed in DS) to STU which will allow (or require, depending on how your mind works) even bigger wheels, bigger tires, front and rear sway, shocks, springs (or coilovers), intake, header, tune, seats, etc. Not to mention you're up against STIs, Evos and 350Zs now.

    If you plan to modify our car a lot anyway, then STU is pretty much the perfect place (and why the class was created in the first place). If you want to see how you stack up on more of a budget, then I might consider your options in DS again. Just something to think about long-term.

    Good luck!
    -Hank #13

    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
    ― Edmund Burke

    "Hank, YEEEE HAW!!! you're a tard head :P" - Diane Bollenbecker

    "Only a Sith deals in absolutes." -Obi Wan Kenobi aka Old Ben Kenobi aka Our Only Hope

  10. #10
    Late Apex Photo BM96's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    El Cajon, CA
    Posts
    304
    Quote Originally Posted by HY. View Post

    If that's the case and you're balking over $200, jumping into STU will not really solve your problems. You will go from the $200 loss and an exhaust, shocks, and sway bar (allowed in DS) to STU which will allow (or require, depending on how your mind works) even bigger wheels, bigger tires, front and rear sway, shocks, springs (or coilovers), intake, header, tune, seats, etc. Not to mention you're up against STIs, Evos and 350Zs now.

    If you plan to modify our car a lot anyway, then STU is pretty much the perfect place (and why the class was created in the first place). If you want to see how you stack up on more of a budget, then I might consider your options in DS again. Just something to think about long-term.

    Good luck!
    Well said, Hank. As a novice just starting out, I would highly recommend at least a year in DS before moving to STU and spending many thousands of dollars to compete against some of the fastest folks with years of experience and purpose built cars. Jumping into a very competitive class with a national champion will be a humbling and potentially frustrating experience. Being a recovering engineer, I would be very uncomfortable having the wheels machined (that may cost nearly the same $200) as manufacturers spend a lot of development time and money to design wheels that meet safety standards and are as light as possible. Any warranty would be voided and even 3 mm may damage the integrity of the wheels.

    Eat the $200 and get the correct wheels for DS. Spend the next year talking to many different people and driving as often and as much as you can. Gain some experience and then decide if STU or some other faster class is for you. I have seen too many new people spend a ton of money to try to make their cars competitive in faster classes and end up with a nearly undrivable street car, large debits and leave the sport angry and disillusioned. Stop by and talk to the Bollenbeckers about their 07 STI (312/123). Understand what it would truly take to get your car competitive in STU, if that is even possible. Now go out and have some fun in DS.

  11. #11
    Senior Member SCNAX
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    822
    I would agree with sending the wheels back, you're better off in the short term and long term in terms of budget, progressing as a driver, and the 15 WRX is not going to be a competitive car in STU even built to the rules. Most importantly, maybe machining can or can't be done, but why even take the chance on a potential safety issue? Wheel failure may cost you more than money. Not worth it no matter how you look at it. By the way, I feel your pain, bought +38 wheels once and returned them because the rears were about 5mm too far outboard to work well. Live and learn, and I guarantee it won't be the last time you buy something more than once

  12. #12
    Senior Member SCNAX
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    1,640
    Can you even get that wheel in a legal offset? I know we couldn't find a proper off set for our '13 WRX and did exactly what you're comtemplating (had them machined).

    We got ours done by John Edwards at R&D in Costa Mesa. Far from you, but superior work and background at very good prices.

    Machining 3mm is not really significant and commonly done. Most people are giving the wheel manufactures too much credit for 'maximizing' their design. In reality the manufacturer is just trying to make the wheel as cheaply as possible.

    BTW, do a little search. I thought I heard the offset rule was going to 7mm or the like.

    Jay W

    Jay W

  13. #13
    Junior Member SCNAX kdawg's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Aliso Viejo
    Posts
    24
    Quote Originally Posted by woodrufj View Post
    Can you even get that wheel in a legal offset? I know we couldn't find a proper off set for our '13 WRX and did exactly what you're comtemplating (had them machined).

    We got ours done by John Edwards at R&D in Costa Mesa. Far from you, but superior work and background at very good prices.

    Machining 3mm is not really significant and commonly done. Most people are giving the wheel manufactures too much credit for 'maximizing' their design. In reality the manufacturer is just trying to make the wheel as cheaply as possible.

    BTW, do a little search. I thought I heard the offset rule was going to 7mm or the like.

    Jay W

    Jay W
    It was my car Jay is referring to. I made the same mistake and bought the "wrong wheel". I knew what offset I needed and when ordering from tire rack, the wheel I needed to be legal was out of stock. I bought the next one on the list. After having the wheels mounted and after running one practice event, I realized the mistake. It cost $20 per wheel to have the 3+mm removed and was worth it. I didn't have to send wheels back and then have the "right wheels" shipped back again.

    I was questioned at Nationals in 2013 and nobody had any problems, in fact another 2013 WRX competitor had done the same thing. I get the better price deal according to him.

    John Edwards did the wheels and he had no problem with performing the deed and felt after seeing the wheel that it was perfectly safe.

    Ken L

  14. #14
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    16
    I found one wheel with the right size and offset, only 5mm difference from stock: its actually cheaper, better made according to the specs (one step up from gravity cast), and lighter by about a pound per wheel. Its a massive pain in the rear but TireRack was nice enough to cover shipping back to me if I ordered the new set. They won't be the color or style I would have liked but at least I'll run with my own class.
    2015 Subaru WRX, #343

  15. #15
    My vtec goes BwaaaaAAAH! SCNAX HY.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    1,226
    Quote Originally Posted by Subie343 View Post
    I found one wheel with the right size and offset, only 5mm difference from stock: its actually cheaper, better made according to the specs (one step up from gravity cast), and lighter by about a pound per wheel. Its a massive pain in the rear but TireRack was nice enough to cover shipping back to me if I ordered the new set. They won't be the color or style I would have liked but at least I'll run with my own class.
    Do it. If it's just for autocross, gold always look better than silver


    (caveat: none of our trophies actually come in gold, silver or bronze, but it sounds better than "resin")
    -Hank #13

    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
    ― Edmund Burke

    "Hank, YEEEE HAW!!! you're a tard head :P" - Diane Bollenbecker

    "Only a Sith deals in absolutes." -Obi Wan Kenobi aka Old Ben Kenobi aka Our Only Hope

  16. #16
    The Iconoclast
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    2,979
    Quote Originally Posted by woodrufj View Post

    We got ours done by John Edwards at R&D in Costa Mesa. Far from you, but superior work and background at very good price.

    Jay W
    John is the best!
    'Go slow to go fast' they say'. Heh. Trust me...... when it comes down to the fast ones? They go fast to go fast.
    .

  17. #17
    Landbarge Master SCNAX Alden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    96
    What about spacers? Or would that technically be a decrease in offset, not an increase? Someone care the explain the offset rule?

    "A. It is the same width as standard and as installed it does not have an
    offset more than ±¼” (±6.35mm) from a standard wheel for the car.
    The resultant change in track dimensions is allowed.

    B. Wheel (rim) diameter may be increased or decreased 1” from the
    standard part.

    Wheel spacers are permitted provided the resultant combination com
    plies with the offset requirements of this Section."
    #721 - Volvo S60R

  18. #18
    Senior Member SCNAX
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    822
    In this case the wheels already stick out 10MM further, a spacer will compound that problem, so no help. With or without spacers, you can't move the offset off the wheel "as installed" more than 1/4" either way. Now, if the new wheels were a +70 when stock is +55, and you added a 15MM spacer, the offset "as installed" would be +55 again and legal.

  19. #19
    Senior Member SCNAX
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    1,640
    You just need one of those negitive spacers I've seen on ebay.

    BTW, the R&D price quote above might have been a 'good guy' deal, so don't take it as gospel.

    Jay W

  20. #20
    The Iconoclast
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    2,979
    Quote Originally Posted by woodrufj View Post

    BTW, the R&D price quote above might have been a 'good guy' deal, so don't take it as gospel.

    Jay W
    So it was Ken that took it down?


    nalbar
    'Go slow to go fast' they say'. Heh. Trust me...... when it comes down to the fast ones? They go fast to go fast.
    .

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •